by Larian

Overall, Rangers are a very good archer class. While as an archer class, there may be a feeling of some level of completeness, there are still many archer issues that need to be hammered out. Furthermore, many archers are disappointed by the inattention to archer issues in Trials of Atlantis, especially when previous feedback indicated some redress (Please take a moment to look over past reports and the feedback received, I intend to keep building in these reports instead of repeating them.). So while the Ranger is a good archer class, the fact remains we are too often placed in situations we are not meant to be in, or able to survive in, making players so frustrated that they throw their arms up and would rather just walk away. Adding to that frustration is the (nearly) total inability for archers to get groups. Furthermore, something needs to be done about buffbots. It is creating two totally different games for archers who have them, and archers who don't.

1.) Group Desirability: This STILL remains a Top Concern, even with the release of ToA, and bears repeating. While there were "custom" master levels for Casters, Healers, Tanks, and Assassins, no such Master Level was clearly an archer track. A Bard Sojouner is still much more desirable than a Ranger Sojouner in any group configuration. As a grouping game, archers are seriously left behind in this regard, and continue to fall further behind. As a community, rangers and archers have made many reasonable suggestions, and are willing to speak to them at length.

In a perfect world, all classes would be equally desired in a group. However, each class in DAOC is different and this means that some classes will be more desired then others. In looking at ways for classes to have improved groupability, we need to remember that certain classes (like the bard in your example) make great sacrifices in exchange for what they bring to a group. Archers should be a viable group option because of the damage and rate of fire they bring to the table. I am not sure we'll be adding any specific group bonus abilities in the near future.

Larian: A bit dissapointed at this since the issue of not having something unique to bring to a group, and the fact that any class is able to outperform us in all areas that we are able to do something still remains. I'll try to make a short bullet statement to this effect in the next report. If anyone has a nice hard hitting set of words about this, I am interested in hearing them! The damage rate reply had me really shaking my head in confusion! Normally I don't subscribe to the "Mythic doesn't play archers" clap-trap; but really, come on!

2.) Pathfinding Effectiveness: The effectiveness of this spec line are still very pertinent points to bring out. This specialization line is currently underperforming with respect to other classes’ (champion, thane) self-buffs, and often not considered worth the spec point investment by many players. Many options lie open here for improving concern number one as well.

See below.

3.) Catch-22: All too often, archers are forced into situations they are not equipped to survive. While stealth does allow us to pick our own battles, we are so easily uncovered by assassins that we must be able to melee, but that puts us at a point that we must give up on other skills in order to compete. Our ranged attacks have the potential to be negated by all classes in the game unless we make sure to spec our bow skill very high, but then that leaves us vulnerable due to lack of melee skills and stealth. Thus a vicious cycle of never having the right tools available to us for any situation. Sadly, this vicious cycle is exasperated by not being able to find groups to make up for our lack of appropriate tools. Addressing issues such as Group Desireablity, Pathfinding, and even Buffbots could do a lot to alleviate this Catch-22.

We've made lots of changes over the past 6 months to help address issues with archers. We've added penetrating arrow and rapid fire. We've added an immunity timer to nearsight (and included cure nearsight as an MA).

Larian: True enbough on the first two. Although, the immunity timer on Nearsight should be made 2 minutes again in my opinion.

Other changes, like the addition of the croc tear ring, have gone into the game to help classes who may not always get a group, still have a chance to enjoy group benefits like speed allowing them a greater opportunity to work with the others in their realm.

Larian: Report written before Crock Ring. I agree here! Thanks.

Still other changes, like MAs and the new Frontiers design, are designed to create more situations where setting up a defense is more viable then it is today. This should help stealth classes in general and archers especially.

Larian: Of course, this creates a world of the haves being so much more powerful than the base class. The whole viability through Realm Ranks thing. I would much rather see the class be fixed without having to first reach a nearly unattainable pinnacle for the average player. I agree these changes have helped, but only a few of the more hardcore players.

4.)Buffbots: A continuation of discussions held in other forums. For stealth classes in particular, buffbots are indeed an imbalancing concern, and something must be done to redress this issue. Furthermore, buffbots really affect all classes in a way, and "elegant" solutions would benefit the enjoyment factor of the game for all.

Leaving the general debate regarding buffbots aside, I am not sure the buffbots themselves are the cause of balance issues. The problem I see is the marked difference in performance by a character who has top tier buffs compared (or versus) a character with no buffs. This is an issue that we're taking a very close look at.

Larian: I'm going to latch onto the words "This is an issue that we're taking a very close look at." like a badger! :) Thank you!

1.) Recurve Bow: Many still perceive that this spec line is lacking in overall utility. The Specialty Arrows suggested by the player base will go a long ways to solving this perception. Penetrating arrow and Rapid fire are very nice additions, but fall short of being actual "styles" for bows. Also, many wonder why do archers outright miss when taking the extra time to line up and concentrate on a Crit Shot?

Adding styles or other things to archery lines is an idea that has been kicked around a lot over the past 6 months. It's still something we're discussing but we have nothing firm yet.

Larian: :)

2.) Pathfinding: This specialization line is currently underperforming with respect to other classes’ (champion, thane) self-buffs, and often not considered worth the spec point investment by many players. The utility of this line is especially jeopardized recently by the availability of redundant alchemy charges (11 dps damage adds for instance), the proliferation of “buffbot” characters, and the fact that rangers must spread 2.0x spec points into 5 key spec lines – a situation that no other class in the game suffers from. Additionally, it has been confirmed through testing by several players that the Pathfinding armor factor buff is not functioning as intended, and does not increase AF beyond the base cap, despite the insistence that this is merely a display error.

As noted in the buff issue above, we're taking a look at buffs overall. As part of that, we may be doing some things that make self-buffing more enticing than receiving the buffs from others. Also, we're going to be looking into doing a review of all the self-buffing lines in the game as they could use some improvement.

Larian: :)

3.) Stealth: Many of the "missing skills" for the ranger class can be placed in the stealth category. As it stands, there is very little motivation for rangers to even spec in stealth beyond whatever level the ranger needs to accomplish minor tasks. “Group" or "Melee" Oriented rangers go so far as to totally ignore this skill due to the lack of returns.

Not clear on the missing skills you're referring to. If this is a thinly veiled request for tracking, I can tell you that tracking hasn't been on the table for the past 6 months, so it might be best to focus elsewhere.

Larian: Okay, a bit of missunderstanding here. Was really hinting at Safe Fall, Climb Walls, and perhaps some sort of group oriented ability that has been suggested all over this web page. Will re-engage.

4.) Celtic Dual: Anxiously awaiting the style review. The styles need to compliment the weapon lines available to all classes that use Celtic Dual.

Stay on top of this during the style review.

I am!

5.) Blades: Anxiously awaiting the style review. Very few styles are even usable by rangers as it stands.

6.) Pierce: Anxiously awaiting the style review.

1.) Atlantean Blues: Again, the lack of an Archer Based Master Ability track, combined with the skills given to many other classes seem to make archers even less desirable. The legendary items in Atlantis also hinder our survivability if we equip them (i.e. Legendary Bows have +28 con on them, making archers the only classes that con-debuffs themselves when switching to melee. (Unless you have redundant con bonuses on your melee items, which is good, but then you're wasting valuable places for SCing which Rangers can't afford.)).

Noted for the item folks.

2.) Buggy: Numerous test have shown that Quickness is effectively capped at 250 (only stat with such a cap). Is this by design, or another bug? Numerous tests have shown that evade rates are halved against dual wielding opponents. Is this designed or a bug?

It's a little more complicated then just that, but the whole archery speed, melee speed, casting speed issue is something that I hope to sit down with a server programmer and gain a better understanding of so we can see if there are any issues we should address.

Larian: Thank you for the answer. Many TL discussions have been bandied about on this subject as well.

3.) Realm Ability Review: Anxiously awaiting this review as well. Herald feedbacks with the same topic over and over are clogging my inbox, and the points are very valid (Duelist's Reflexes!).

1.) Dead Horse Patrol: Evades and incredibly high block rates of arrows are still a major concern. Test show that an AFK person can block upwards of 80% of arrows just standing there (without using engage). Assassins Evading arrows without dropping stealth is also a concern, as well as the incredibly high rates of evade versus arrows.

2.) Viability Through Ream Ranks: Sadly it takes RR5+ (even RR7+) for an archer to be viable against the most basic opponents. This is a path that both players and I (as their voice) have serious issues with. Addressing lack of skills, groupability, and survivability are the only answers to this concern. The tests by the Hunter Team Lead support this concern.

3.) Tracking: Is there a timeline available for this (in the broadest sense)? I know many are anxiously awaiting any word on this (along with many other skills!)!

No. To my knowledge there haven’t been any plans for tracking for a long time now.

Larian: Well, there you have it. Too bad, it would have been a great "Group Desirable" skill!

4.) Line of Sight: ALL (taller) ranged classes are looking forward to having their eyes transplanted from their knees to their heads, where they belong!

LOS issues are a priority in the new Frontiers design.

Larian: :)

5.) Skill Dilution: Another Dead Horse topic. Rangers still need all 5 skills to be viable, yet we only receive 2.0 spec points, leaving our 5 skills diluted when compared to other (archer) classes who only have 4 skills to spec.

6.) Lack of Options: With Endurnace burnout, your feedback said that we should melee (which we are not built to survive), and many archers would rather stay out of the thick of the battle. There needs to be something that we can actually DO from range if we are out of endurance (or a reduction in endurance cost of arrow shots).

7.) Critical Shot: It has been asked why archers completely miss their targets after spending extra time lining up a shot. While making critical shot work 100% of the time isn’t right, there are suggestions that if the critical shot misses, it should do normal damage instead of being a miss (unless bladeturned or all damage is absorbed by armor); in other words, it should never completely miss the target. This is more of an adjustment to a base ability to address weaknesses in the class overall.

8.) Specialty Arrows: We still want Specialty Arrows! While not an issue of survivability, groupability, or missing skills, at least there is a fun factor for archers here (something severely lacking right now for the average player).

9.) More Style: Aside from a functional quiver, a graphical one is highly desireable. As well as animations for volley, longshot, going into stealth, and other "fluff". An active icon for Rapid Fire and Truesight would also be nice graphical additions.

Please review and comment on the quiver functionality that is currently on Pendragon.

Larian: Been to Pendragon and played around with it. A few Bug Reports. Also, many suggestions brought up on the TL forums.

10.) Merchants: There are no arrow merchants available for housing. Also, in order for (high level) crafters to make arrows and high level bows, a house needs a Grandmaster Merchant (for the high level items) and an Apprentice Merchant (for arrow items), taking up two spots for just a few items.

Noted for the content team.

1.) Atlantis Items: The information on the delved legendary bows show the damage/debuff effects have a range of 350 while archers are still getting hit by reactive procs at full range from enemy targets. The crafting of Legendary items seem inconsistent as far as the quality of an item compared to the difficulty/value of the item.

2.) Not Being Able to Craft Procs on Bows: Why bows should be excluded from having procs crafted on to them is a complete and utter mystery to me and the playerbase. The dropped bows that have procs clearly show this is possible.

Above two noted for item folks.

3.) New Keep Designs: Getting any sort of LOS once the enemy is in the courtyard is either nearly impossible, or certian death by exposing our position (as well as our realm mates). Defining skills such as volley do not work at that range either.

Heh, this is in the item section because a keep is very large item right? Agreed on the keep LOS issues. Hoping that people will be very pleased with the new Frontiers design.

Larian: Initial indications are very encouraging!

Realm Ability Herald Documentation: The Herald is showing old values for Longshot and Volley costs.